Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jukka » 26 Jul 2013, 23:50

hi JJ,

The meaning in Shadow Play: have you heard that story from RG, or is it your interpretation of the song? I always want to hear the story of a song from the artist himself/herself. Without that, the interpretation is always in the mind of the person, who is listening to the song.

Take this line for example :"I can't run away from this shadow play". To me, it represents continuous feeling, not a temporary feeling, caused by influenza.
Last edited by Jukka on 27 Jul 2013, 00:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jay Jay » 27 Jul 2013, 00:05

Jukka wrote:hi JJ,

The meaning in Shadow Play: have you heard that story from RG, or is it your interpretation of the song? I always want to hear the story of a song from the artist himself/herself. Without that, the interpretation it's always in the mind of the person, who is listening to the song.


Hi Jukka,

Unfortunately we are not going to hear it from Rory anymore. But RORY stated this years ago, how he composed Shadow Play, while suffering the symptoms of influenza.

"The interpretation it's always in the mind of the person, who is listening to the song"!
I cannot argue with this :)
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jukka » 27 Jul 2013, 00:24

aye,

and because Rory can't tell us, we never know, if the influenza had anything to do with the lyrics of the song, all we know that he was ill, when writing the lyrics...so, summa summarum, the conclusion is that there is no answer to the question, what the meaning of the song is. We all have our own opinions/thoughts, what the meaning of the song is. And I don't mean that is a bad thing, quite opposite, I think it gives us all room for ideas and thoughts, what might be behind the lyrics.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby RobertaSparrow » 28 Jul 2013, 16:57

Jukka wrote:aye,

and because Rory can't tell us, we never know, if the influenza had anything to do with the lyrics of the song, all we know that he was ill, when writing the lyrics...so, summa summarum, the conclusion is that there is no answer to the question, what the meaning of the song is. We all have our own opinions/thoughts, what the meaning of the song is. And I don't mean that is a bad thing, quite opposite, I think it gives us all room for ideas and thoughts, what might be behind the lyrics.


That's why it's an art form. If it's good, then it is subjective and open to interpretation. We know, because Rory was quoted as saying, he wrote the lyrics while recovering from influenza, that the effects from the illness either inspired or affected his imagination. The song wasn't about being ill or feverish, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say we all know how a high fever, especially from flu, can distort perception. I've had flu-induced fevers that made the walls appear to breathe. A fever like that with some of the flu meds you can buy over the counter, and add Rory's imagination to it and I've no doubt he used that to fuel his creative processes.

Even the artist can reasonably differ with an interpretation, but that doesn't make him or the listener wrong. As example. the Beatles' song, Hey Jude, was written by Paul McCartney for John's son Julian:

"I started with the idea 'Hey Jules,' which was Julian, don't make it bad, take a sad song and make it better. Hey, try and deal with this terrible thing. I knew it was not going to be easy for him. I always feel sorry for kids in divorces ... I had the idea [for the song] by the time I got there. I changed it to 'Jude' because I thought that sounded a bit better." -Paul McCartney

But when John heard the song, he said Paul had written it for him. That Paul to this day will say the song was written for Julian didn't matter at all to John, who responded to questions about the origins as,

"But I always heard it as a song to me. If you think about it... Yoko's just come into the picture. He's saying. 'Hey, Jude—Hey, John.' I know I'm sounding like one of those fans who reads things into it, but you can hear it as a song to me ... Subconsciously, he was saying, Go ahead, leave me. On a conscious level, he didn't want me to go ahead."- John Lennon

Shadow Play is full of imagery, and I think Rory intended it to be subjective. To me it's a lovely dreamscape, and if I had to speculate I'd say it's representative of Rory's personality, how he could compartmentalize things in his life, being the whirling dervish on stage, and being the quiet, reserved gentle man off stage. But it's only my opinion.



Perhaps during that delirium he saw that- the two sides of his persona, and how they merge and then separate. Both sides exist in the same man, and I think he saw it when he wrote that. But then again, maybe I'm just one of those fans who read things into it.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby didyouever » 28 Jul 2013, 22:16

I figured that Shadow Play has something to do with a confused state, but I didn't know these stories about the fever. Thanks for the great answers.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jukka » 31 Jul 2013, 22:58

well written, Roberta

all I wanted to point out was, that JJ's post, starting with "The meaning in Shadow Play is all about... " should've been "IMO, the meaning in Shadow Play is all about.."
because there is no absolute truth and we all have our own opinions ;)
Maybe a small detail for some, but made a difference to me.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jay Jay » 02 Aug 2013, 11:45

RobertaSparrow wrote:Shadow Play is full of imagery, and I think Rory intended it to be subjective. To me it's a lovely dreamscape, and if I had to speculate I'd say it's representative of Rory's personality, how he could compartmentalize things in his life, being the whirling dervish on stage, and being the quiet, reserved gentle man off stage
didyouever wrote:I figured that Shadow Play has something to do with a confused state, but I didn't know these stories about the fever. THANKS for THE GREAT ANSWERS.
Jukka wrote:well written, Roberta

all I wanted to point out was, that JJ's post, starting with "The meaning in Shadow Play is all about... " should've been "IMO, the meaning in Shadow Play is all about.."
because there is no absolute truth AND WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN OPINIONS ;)
Maybe a small detail for some, but made a difference to me.


Didyouever, no problem you're welcome.

Still sounds like you doubt MHO Jukka??
Roberta / Cynthia has written a similar opinion but is better at putting it into words than I am :)
Btw, I'm not quite sure that I have read in one of Rory's old interviews, that he explained the meaning of the song as I and Cynthia too :)

Can't you be more constructive Jukka to this topic. By giving us "YOUR OWN OPINION" of the meaning of the song Shadow Play now then?? ;)

Rock On for Rory
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jukka » 02 Aug 2013, 21:02

hi JJ,
If you had used the word MHO, I would not have reacted, because by that you would have admitted that it is your Humble Opinion and I would have accepted that. But you wrote " The meaning in Shadow Play IS all about Rory's mentality..." and it seemed to me that you gave your opinion as truth. And you admitted: "The interpretation is always in the mind of the person, who is listening to the song! I cannot argue with this :)"

When I write something about musicians, I try to use the frase "in my opinion...", because I know that people have different opinions of music and I appreciate everyone's opinions whether they agree with me or not.

What comes to my opinion of the song, it's great, but you have to keep in mind, that English is your native language, not mine and thus, there is big chance that we foreigners don't fully understand all of the lyrics. Moreover, IMHO, my opinion of the song is quite irrelevant, I think more relevant is, that we all interpret songs differently, depending on of our life situations, etc. If the artist in question doesn't want to give an explanation of the song, the listeners interpret it in their own ways and so be it.

PS. quoting didyouever: "I figured that Shadow Play has something to do with a confused state, but I didn't know these stories about the fever." I agree with didyouever...I would go even further, maybe he was a bit disillutioned,maybe caused by alchohol and medicine or even drugs together?

Thoughts run wild, free as a child, into the night
Across the screen a thin beam, of magic light
Yeah, things they just don't look the same
In this shadow play, this shadow play




Jukka
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jay Jay » 02 Aug 2013, 21:25

Jay Jay wrote:
didyouever wrote:Yeah, I mean the meaning of the song.


Hi, Didyouever

The meaning in Shadow Play is all about Rory's mentality at the time he wrote the song. He wrote the song when suffering influenza. Probably taking the strong medication we all take while suffering flu symptoms. ie : Lemsip Max, Night Nurse, Beechams etc etc. Thus getting light head feelings. Plus in and out of sleep modes.

" I feel a little strange inside ".....

Rock On for Rory
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Jukka wrote:But you wrote " The meaning in Shadow Play IS all about Rory's mentality..." and it seemed to me that you gave your opinion as truth.

Hi Jukka, I don't disagree entirely with what you say however..
I stand by these words in my original post that as the truth anyway. So that part is not an opinion at all, it is fact!

Maybe I could have worded it better by putting 'was' instead of 'is' that's all... but that is being really pedantic :roll:

PS. I'll try and find the text in this interview that Rory gave. When he describes the time when he was suffering from flu symptoms, when writing this song.
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Re: Stories and Meanings behind Rory's songs!

Postby Jukka » 02 Aug 2013, 21:53

I edited my post after your post and I here it is:

hi JJ,
If you had used the word MHO, I would not have reacted, because by that you would have admitted that it is your Humble Opinion and I would have accepted that. But you wrote " The meaning in Shadow Play IS all about Rory's mentality..." and it seemed to me that you gave your opinion as truth. And you admitted: "The interpretation is always in the mind of the person, who is listening to the song! I cannot argue with this :)"

When I write something about musicians, I try to use the frase "in my opinion...", because I know that people have different opinions of music and I appreciate everyone's opinions whether they agree with me or not.

What comes to my opinion of the song, it's great, but you have to keep in mind, that English is your native language, not mine and thus, there is big chance that we foreigners don't fully understand all of the lyrics. Moreover, IMHO, my opinion of the song is quite irrelevant, I think more relevant is, that we all interpret songs differently, depending on of our life situations, etc. If the artist in question doesn't want to give an explanation of the song, the listeners interpret it in their own ways and so be it.

PS. quoting didyouever: "I figured that Shadow Play has something to do with a confused state, but I didn't know these stories about the fever." I agree with didyouever...I would go even further, maybe he was a bit disillutioned,maybe caused by use of alchohol and medicine or even drugs together? This is pure speculation, I admit that.

Thoughts run wild, free as a child, into the night
Across the screen a thin beam, of magic light
Yeah, things they just don't look the same
In this shadow play, this shadow play
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010, 16:52

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