Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love"

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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby RobertaSparrow » 31 Jul 2017, 14:56

***sigh***

I had this exact same discussion with my boyfriend in the 70's, where he steadfastly defended Zep.

Okay, let's play who wrote it.

Zep- from Physical Graffiti, 1975


Bob Dylan (early 60s)

Dylan clearly made this recording before Zep did. Strange though, he did not claim credit for writing it.
Mississippi Fred McDowell, recorded in 1964


Blind Willie Johnson recorded in 1964


John Fahey 1960 (John Fahey was known for his guitar, not his singing)


Short answer, I know who didn't write it. I had one of the first copies of the album, and Zep claimed credit for it. That may have since changed.

My boyfriend at the time conceded Zep did not write it when he heard Dylan, and Dylen got to the part, "well, well, well, so I can die easy." Then he exclaimed, "they even copied that!"
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby Shin Kicker » 31 Jul 2017, 15:25

RobertaSparrow wrote:I had this exact same discussion with my boyfriend in the 70's, where he steadfastly defended Zep.


With all due respect, that's not at all the same discussion. This thread is about whether "You Need Love" written by Willie Dixon is the same song as "Whole Lotta Love". Your discussion with your boyfriend is about whether an artist is prevented from taking credit for an original song which borrows a couple of lines from a traditional folk song which has no legal author.

In other words, there's a big difference between 1) borrowing a couple of lines from a folk song to use in your own song, and 2) recording a cover of somebody else's song without giving credit to the copyright holder. There's a big difference legally, and there's a big difference ethically.

Since you mention Bob Dylan, here's what he had to say about the practice of borrowing snippets of lyrics by saying: "It's an old thing – it's part of the tradition. It goes way back".
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby RobertaSparrow » 31 Jul 2017, 18:14

Shin Kicker,

With all due respect, this thread long since deviated from the original topic.

Shin Kicker: "The short answer is: "no, that is not true". They gave credit when covering songs and they were not found guilty of anything in that case since they settled out of court.

The long answer is : "it's complicated". When covering blues standards, Led Zep gave full credit to the original song writer, just like other blues artists at the time, like Rory Gallagher, did. Two of the songs on their first album were fully credited to Willie Dixon. The complication came when they used snippets of ideas from previous songs. It was common at the time to borrow ideas like that without giving credit. " [emphasis added]

" . . . If they had covered any songs after the first album, they would have fully credited the original author of the song."

and

"If they had covered any songs after the first album, they would have fully credited the original author of the song. Like I said, they did reference small bits of older songs after the first album, like other people where doing at the time without credits. I'm just pointing out that it's not right to attribute this to a lack of integrity. . . " [emphaisis added]


1. This thread's focus shifted early on away from "You Need Love" "Whole Lotta Love" several responses ago, as you can see from your own previous responses.

2. RE: "The complication came when they used snippets of ideas from previous songs." As you can see from the Dylan recording I referenced, they did not borrow a few snippets, they borrowed Dylan's whole arrangement. Which BTW, Dylan did not credit to himself, nor did he credit it to Plant and Page. Dylan credited previous artists, arrangement Bob Dylan.

3. RE: " If they had covered any songs after the first album, they would have fully credited the original author of the song." Physical Graffiti was a long way past their first album, and no, when the album came out they only credited themselves.

And yeah, it is a long tradition of borrowing snippets, bits and pieces, from previous folk/blues songs in new songs. The proper way to relate authorship in those instances where a significant portion of someone else's work is incorporated into new work is to note it as "arrangement by . . . " instead of claiming it as one's own original work.
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby Shin Kicker » 31 Jul 2017, 19:15

Jay Jay and I were discussing whether Led Zep properly credited Willie Dixon. They credited him on their covers of his songs on the first album. If they had gone to court over Whole Lotta Love, Dixon probably would have lost, but they settled, so we'll never know.

Now you bring up the subject of folk songs. That's an entirely different subject, with different legal and ethical obligations compared to songs which have a copyright holder. Basically, there are no obligations. Led Zep gave "Traditional" credit when they covered folk songs like Gallows Pole and Hat's Off to Roy Harper. Should they have done the same for In My Time of Dying? I don't know. I can see someone arguing it either way, but whether they have integrity as artists hardly hangs on the answer to that question.
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby RobertaSparrow » 31 Jul 2017, 21:06

Shin Kicker wrote:Jay Jay and I were discussing whether Led Zep properly credited Willie Dixon. They credited him on their covers of his songs on the first album. If they had gone to court over Whole Lotta Love, Dixon probably would have lost, but they settled, so we'll never know.

Now you bring up the subject of folk songs. That's an entirely different subject, with different legal and ethical obligations compared to songs which have a copyright holder. Basically, there are no obligations. Led Zep gave "Traditional" credit when they covered folk songs like Gallows Pole and Hat's Off to Roy Harper. Should they have done the same for In My Time of Dying? I don't know. I can see someone arguing it either way, but whether they have integrity as artists hardly hangs on the answer to that question.


I didn't think this needed to be pointed out, but blues is a genre of folk song, and I'm not going out on a limb saying that.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/folk%20song
https://www.britannica.com/art/blues-music
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/e ... tryID=5003

and with that I hand it over to Jay Jay.
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby Shin Kicker » 31 Jul 2017, 21:21

By "folk song" I was referring to a song with no known author. A song in the public domain. A song with no copyright holder. I tried to make that obvious by citing examples and contrasting such songs with ones that _do_ have a copyright holder.

When discussing song writing credits, such songs have very different ethical and legal obligations than songs which do have a copyright holder.

My apologies if your post was intended to be a joke and I just didn't get it :).
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Re: Taste "You Need Love" aka Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Lo

Postby Jay Jay » 01 Aug 2017, 08:35

Make you own minds up who wrote the songs..
Here are the lyrics to compare "You Need Love" to "Whole Lotta Love"..

"You Need Love"..

You've got yearnin' and I got burnin'
Baby you look so sweet and cunning
Baby way down inside, woman you need love
Woman you need love, you've got to have some love
I'm gonna give you some love, I know you need love
You just gotta have love, you make me feel so good
You make me feel all right, you're so nice, you're so nice
You're frettin', and I'm petting
A lot of good things you ain't getting
Baby, way down inside, you need love
You need to be hugged and squeezed real tight,
by the light of the moon on some summer night
You need love and kissing too,
all these things are good for you
I ain't foolin' you need schoolin'
Baby you know you need coolin'
Baby, way down inside, woman you need love
Writer Willie Dixon

"Whole Lotta Love"..

You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.
[Chorus]
Wanna Whole Lotta Love [X4]
You've been learnin', baby, I've been yearnin',
All them good times, baby, baby, I've been yearnin',
Way, way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love... I'm gonna give you my love.
[Chorus]
You've been coolin', baby, I've been droolin',
All the good times I've been misusin',
Way, way down inside, I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you every inch of my love,
Gonna give you my love.
[Chorus]
Way down inside... woman... You need... love.
Shake for me, girl. I wanna be your backdoor man.
Keep it coolin', baby, keep it collin baby
Writer(s): John Bonham, John Paul Jones, Robert Plant, James Patrick Page

WHOLE LOTTA similarity In the lyrics with these two songs. Don't we all agee ;)

From Wiki..
"Whole Lotta Love" is a song by English hard rock band Led Zeppelin. It is the opening track on the band's second album, Led Zeppelin II, and was released in the United States, several countries in Europe, and Japan as a single; as with other Led Zeppelin songs, no single was released in the United Kingdom. The US release became their first hit single, being certified Gold on 13 April 1970, having sold one million copies.[4] It reached number one in Germany, and number four in the Netherlands. Parts of the song were adapted from Willie Dixon's "You Need Love", recorded by Muddy Waters in 1962; originally uncredited to Dixon, a lawsuit in 1985 was settled with a payment to Dixon and credit on subsequent releases.

In the end Led Zeppelin and Willie Dixon all take credit for this song and justice to all was given..
and I must admit to loving the adaptation and guitar riff that Jimmy Page created..
with the intro to this great compromised BLUES / ROCK song :D :D :D :D :D

Jimmy Page & Rory Gallagher.jpg
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