Gerry McAvoy Thread

Rory Gallagher's No.1 Page for Discussion.. Topics Rory Related with Respect Always

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 30 May 2014, 20:09

I hear tell there's a big party going on right now in Ballyshannon to honor Rory. Let's all get into that groove and celebrate the man, that's why we're all here.

Please people, remember why we're all here, what we have in common,



and lets move on.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby capo » 30 May 2014, 21:03

Your right as always Roberta. Delete my last post if you can please. Thanks.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 30 May 2014, 21:18

I understand how you feel Capo, we're coming up on the anniversary, and I feel it too. I'll do as you ask. 8-)
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 31 May 2014, 22:22

Rory was not clinically narcissistic. He does not meet the requirements for the standard diagnosis criteria set forth in the DSM-IV.

Every addict is not mentally ill, just as every mentally ill person does not become an addict. There can be a complex interplay between addiction and mental illness, and one person can be both, nevertheless they are separate and they are treated as separate disorders. It's complicated.

Cognitive dissonance is not necessarily a bad thing. It is part of the learning process.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 15 Jun 2015, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 01 Jun 2014, 00:19

Try reading again what was actually discussed. No-one said Rory had narcissistic personality disorder, or was clinically narcissistic. It was discussed that both he and Gerry had narcissistic traits, as do most people who perform to the public, whether it be on a stage, pulpit or soap box, and that these traits give the bearers the drive to entertain the rest of us. They enjoy being the centre of attention and popularity/fame. It was said in the context of Gerry allegedly attention grabbing at Rory's expense. It was also stated that neither had strong traits such as the Spinal Tap kind of musicians.

Furthermore, 'cognitive dissonance' can be a 'bad thing' when it causes an individual's behaviour to become dysfunctional due to deeply rooted beliefs concerning guilt and shame.

With regard to 'google' experts, don't jump to conclusions.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 03 Jun 2014, 11:36

I would have let calling Rory a narcissist pass, since several others also corrected you when you called Rory (and Gerry) by that term. Even with your hard left turn into 'the elephant in the room' business, and actually labeling them both as such, I thought perhaps you were using the word colloquially, although you got pretty specific. And if it had ended there, I wouldn't have said anything. However, it didn't end there.

Next was your 'all addicts are emotional/mentally ill' claim. Incorrect, but also, what was the point? First Rory is narcissistic, then he's mentally ill because he was addicted to something? And thank you for clarifying your mistake about cognitive dissonance. The word you're looking for is simply 'conflict' because cognitive dissonance very often involves some kind of resolution toward cognitive consonance. It is not necessarily a perpetual state. But again, you seem to be inferring that Rory developed some dysfunction because of this unresolved conflict leading to what, again mental illness? And I learned about cognitive dissonance while doing my graduate work in education.

I'm not sure what "With regard to 'google' experts, don't jump to conclusions." means, unless you misplaced the comma. If you're implying I consider myself an expert, or if you're implying you are an expert, it doesn't really matter. Regardless, unless one is a trained mental health professional, one is not an expert and I don't claim to be one, although I do have some knowledge and training. So even if you heard something about a diagnosis, even if Rory or Donal told you themselves, unless you were in the room when the doctor made the diagnosis, you don't know. Even Donal frequently makes comments that indicate he wasn't clear on everything happening with his brother.

You said on another thread that Rory had RA. I was surprised by that, because he didn't have the characteristic deformity of that disease among other reasons. So I assumed you confused that term with OA, unless of course you have some insiders' knowledge of an actual diagnosis, which I doubt. Perhaps you also don't understand that when you call someone a covert narcissist, it has a meaning other than the way you understand it. And so with your assertions about addiction and cognitive dissonance.

I stand by my advice to anyone. If you feel the need to label an individual or a group with a medical or psychological term you are not sure of, ask Tom. He will give you a measured and accurate response. When I'm not sure, I ask a doctor, and believe me I do it all the time.

I know you took my post as an attack, and so you felt the need to attack me in return. The reason I made the post is to prevent anyone else reading this thread from reaching the considered conclusion I did, that you are making a case for Rory being mentally ill. I'm not convinced he was, and none of your arguments have changed my opinion, if that's where you were indeed going.

One of the many reasons mental health professionals are uniquely qualified to make psychological diagnoses is their specialized training which helps them to remain objective, to avoid projecting their own fears, desires and experiences onto their clients. I don't have that training, which is why I stick to signs and symptoms, possibly behaviors and observations. But I try to keep them general.

You often have interesting observations and information, but when you veer off into the kind of commentary I've seen in this thread, I think you do yourself a disservice.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 03 Jun 2014, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Jay Jay » 03 Jun 2014, 12:07

RobertaSparrow wrote:
IrishBlues wrote:You must also acknowledge that Ireland at the time was extremely strict with Catholicism,The entire education and health services were under the idiotic teachings of the Catholic Church, My father remembers how they told everyone "WHAT TO DO AND WHAT TO THINK" and Rory would have no doubt received similar treatment.Add the poverty of the country and you see how miserable the place was and thus many of the inhabitants were drawn (forced into) Catholicism .


Yes, I'm a big fan of the separation of church and state, for those reasons.


Henry V111 is the best bad example of this IMHO and he took over from Catholicism in the UK

Everyone is saying what to do and what to think,
And when to ask permission when you feel you want to blink.
First look left and then look right and now look straight ahead,
Make sure and take a warning of every word we've said.
Now you lay you down to sleep make sure and get some rest,
Tomorrow is another day and you must pass the test.
Don't try and think too different now what we say is best,
Listen little man you're no better than the rest.

Don't lay beside the wayside all around the road we've set,
Smile and look happy fool or we'll throw you in the wet.

Now if you learn your lesson well and step upon the line,
Save your breath until forever we should get along just fine.
We'll bend your heart until it breaks make sure you feel no pain,
We'll be the one to crush you and give you to the rain.

But now you want to run away oh can I see you run,
Run across the frozen air try resting on the sun.
And if you feel it burn you don't yell out in pain,
Or wish you had a velvet sponge full of soothing rain.

So let's have that stiff upper lip now take a long deep breath,
Close your ears you cannot hear the rules are all pre-set.
You thought we were illusions but we meant the word we said,
We're in command, you tiny fly, we'll crush you till you're dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNfKtHvaPEU
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 03 Jun 2014, 12:16

I'm thankful that Rory had such a strong and supportive mum. I think that made all the difference in the way he was able to develop as an artist, in spite of the oppressive environment.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 15 Jun 2015, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 03 Jun 2014, 15:08

For all you non-Americans out there, ;) the doctrine of separation of church and state does not apply to just Catholicism, or Christianity for that matter, but to a separation between a person's own spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) and interference or harassment or intimidation by the government or any government-sponsored entities, such as the grasp Catholicism has on Ireland and the Church of England being headed by a member of a particular family merely because they were born into it. That would include protection for Catholic and Protestant Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, or whatever other flavor of belief system is out there. Doesn't mean it always works, just look at the Republican Party in our Congress to see where it falls short. It is basically the notion that it is illegal to discriminate against anyone for their belief system, and illegal for there to be any government-sanctioned official religion (yes we know, we have Utah and Mormons, like I said, it isn't perfect).
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 09 Jun 2014, 15:17

Rory was highly creative, obviously. I’m not sure if people who are not so can really get into the mind of someone who is. It’s a different way of seeing, knowing, understanding, and it often requires a great deal of solitude. Rory was also empathetic, so much so that he put himself in danger to bring music to places no one else would. Note that lack of empathy is a key hallmark of narcissism.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 15 Jun 2015, 13:12, edited 4 times in total.
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