Gerry McAvoy Thread

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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby IrishBlues » 28 May 2014, 22:58

RobertaSparrow wrote:I'm going to forget Gerry for now, and take in a little McAvoy Boogie, as played by . . . Well, you know who :lol: :lol: :lol:



Love that joyful glint in his eye, and his smile ;)

RoRy


Off-topic but its cool that was listening to that when I seen yer post.
Also to the person who wrote the long piece, Fair play! Not too often that you see well written logical arguments on the internet
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 29 May 2014, 03:58

Flamenca wrote:
I refer to 'I Could've Had Religion' ... 'but my little girl wouldn't let me pray' ... I think this was Rory's way of saying that playing his guitar, together with his love of the limelight, performing and loving all of the attention, was inconsistent with the modesty and humility of Catholic teachings ... It caused him 'cognitive dissonance' (A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions) ... I wouldn't be at all surprised if the inspiration for that song came from the beating he took from the Christian Brothers for playing the guitar, showing off on stage (according to them) seeking attention, vanity, playing sexual (rock n' roll) music and a 'phallic shaped' instrument ... any other crazy Catholic guilt trip they tried to pile on him ... probably because they personally were narcissistic and jealous, wanting to keep all the power and attention to themselves ... note: a congregation is a captive audience ... heaven forbid any one of the audience should step into the limelight themselves and gain more attention and become more popular ... so under the pretext of moral righteousness ... they beat him down and tried to keep him subjected ... and IMO the emotional damage started there ...


Hmmm . . . well, being a Catholic myself, I can't deny that certain aspects of it do mess with one's head. But there are two sides to every coin. When I used to go see him, it never occurred to me what his religious upbringing was. But I wasn't at all surprised to learn he was Catholic. Two sides to every coin, I think his Catholicism was as much a part of what made him the man he was, as his fascination with blues, jazz, folk, or rock music. Just as his interests in crime and mystery fiction, and all the other subjects he dove into. He was such a multifaceted man.

I read a post written by a woman who grew up in Rory's hometown. She and her friends had commented, he used to go to Saturday evening mass when he was home, he would take his mother. This woman had said something to the effect of, when Rory was in town she and these other girls would be sure to go to that same mass so they could watch him :lol: :lol: :lol: I can picture that, young stunningly handsome Rory with his long hair, taking his mother to church and all the girls watching him, listening to him sing the mass parts (there's a lot of that, sit, stand, kneel, sing, pray), and watching him walk up the aisle for communion.

Later I heard a song written by another guitar-playing Catholic who was considering the priesthood, albeit briefly ( he said it was 'cause they wouldn't let him bring a guitar, but later he said it was for the money)- Jack White,

from Blue Blood Blues: "All you had to do was ask. Who is it that wears the mask? Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. Sing. Sing. Sing."

I thought of those girls in Rory's hometown, and of Rory in church. But I digress . . .

And in my opinion, there is nothing Christian about striking a boy for playing a guitar, and no excuse for what they did to him.

Two sides to every coin, I think, and this is just my opinion, but I think his faith also helped him endure his illness, it was there to ease his fear when he needed it most.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby IrishBlues » 29 May 2014, 18:24

RobertaSparrow wrote:
Flamenca wrote:
I refer to 'I Could've Had Religion' ... 'but my little girl wouldn't let me pray' ... I think this was Rory's way of saying that playing his guitar, together with his love of the limelight, performing and loving all of the attention, was inconsistent with the modesty and humility of Catholic teachings ... It caused him 'cognitive dissonance' (A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions) ... I wouldn't be at all surprised if the inspiration for that song came from the beating he took from the Christian Brothers for playing the guitar, showing off on stage (according to them) seeking attention, vanity, playing sexual (rock n' roll) music and a 'phallic shaped' instrument ... any other crazy Catholic guilt trip they tried to pile on him ... probably because they personally were narcissistic and jealous, wanting to keep all the power and attention to themselves ... note: a congregation is a captive audience ... heaven forbid any one of the audience should step into the limelight themselves and gain more attention and become more popular ... so under the pretext of moral righteousness ... they beat him down and tried to keep him subjected ... and IMO the emotional damage started there ...


Hmmm . . . well, being a Catholic myself, I can't deny that certain aspects of it do mess with one's head. But there are two sides to every coin. When I used to go see him, it never occurred to me what his religious upbringing was. But I wasn't at all surprised to learn he was Catholic. Two sides to every coin, I think his Catholicism was as much a part of what made him the man he was, as his fascination with blues, jazz, folk, or rock music. Just as his interests in crime and mystery fiction, and all the other subjects he dove into. He was such a multifaceted man.

I read a post written by a woman who grew up in Rory's hometown. She and her friends had commented, he used to go to Saturday evening mass when he was home, he would take his mother. This woman had said something to the effect of, when Rory was in town she and these other girls would be sure to go to that same mass so they could watch him :lol: :lol: :lol: I can picture that, young stunningly handsome Rory with his long hair, taking his mother to church and all the girls watching him, listening to him sing the mass parts (there's a lot of that, sit, stand, kneel, sing, pray), and watching him walk up the aisle for communion.

Later I heard a song written by another guitar-playing Catholic who was considering the priesthood, albeit briefly ( he said it was 'cause they wouldn't let him bring a guitar, but later he said it was for the money)- Jack White,

from Blue Blood Blues: "All you had to do was ask. Who is it that wears the mask? Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. Sing. Sing. Sing."

I thought of those girls in Rory's hometown, and of Rory in church. But I digress . . .

And in my opinion, there is nothing Christian about striking a boy for playing a guitar, and no excuse for what they did to him.

Two sides to every coin, I think, and this is just my opinion, but I think his faith also helped him endure his illness, it was there to ease his fear when he needed it most.

You must also acknowledge that Ireland at the time was extremely strict with Catholicism,The entire education and health services were under the idiotic teachings of the Catholic Church, My father remembers how they told everyone what to do and what to think and Rory would have no doubt received similar treatment.Add the poverty of the country and you see how miserable the place was and thus many of the inhabitants were drawn (forced into) Catholicism .
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 30 May 2014, 17:32

At this point, Gerry is Rory’s Boswell, like his book and opinions or not. And until someone else writes the definitive biography, something more than a rehash of the same old party-line, it will remain so.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 15 Jun 2015, 12:15, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 30 May 2014, 17:39

You mean like Mozart and Salieri? Superman and Lex Luthor? Sampson and Delilah?
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 30 May 2014, 17:45

Tibbierocks wrote:I have to say I’m not too keen on all the armchair psychology regarding Rory. What was Rory’s problem? Was he a narcissist? Did he have a personality disorder? Was he autistic? Was his rare blood type to blame? I don’t think he was any of those and I’m not convinced his blood was the problem either.

........

I don’t dispute Rory had anxiety issues. The OCD was a sign of this. Rory was under a lot of pressure as the song-writer, etc. and I’ve no doubt that’s where the alcohol and medication came in. As his physical appearance changed, I’m sure that again increased his sense of isolation. Facing people and going onstage and having people see the weight gain etc., I’m sure would have been upsetting for him, hence more need to drink to cope, etc. I’m sure it made him withdraw further. I think Rory was caught up in some vicious circle of medication/alcohol, which added to his anxiety, depression no end. We all know alcohol is a depressant.



Well said, Tibbierocks.
Last edited by Annie Elliott on 15 Jun 2015, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 30 May 2014, 17:48

RobertaSparrow wrote:You mean like Mozart and Salieri? Superman and Lex Luthor? Sampson and Delilah?


Sorry, was this for me? If so, I meant more like James Boswell's "Life of Samuel Johnson." If not, never mind!
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 30 May 2014, 17:52

IrishBlues wrote:You must also acknowledge that Ireland at the time was extremely strict with Catholicism,The entire education and health services were under the idiotic teachings of the Catholic Church, My father remembers how they told everyone what to do and what to think and Rory would have no doubt received similar treatment.Add the poverty of the country and you see how miserable the place was and thus many of the inhabitants were drawn (forced into) Catholicism .


Yes, I'm a big fan of the separation of church and state, for those reasons.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 30 May 2014, 17:59

Annie Elliott wrote:
RobertaSparrow wrote:You mean like Mozart and Salieri? Superman and Lex Luthor? Sampson and Delilah?


Sorry, was this for me? If so, I meant more like James Boswell's "Life of Samuel Johnson." If not, never mind!


was thinking of the movie Amadeus, and the rivalry as portrayed in the movie, but is in reality in dispute.
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Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Annie Elliott » 30 May 2014, 18:15

.
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