Gerry McAvoy Thread

Rory Gallagher's No.1 Page for Discussion.. Topics Rory Related with Respect Always

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 27 May 2014, 01:09

Thought I'd read this years ago ... Ronnie Wood wasn't / isn't signed to the Stones record deal either ... he mentioned it on his Sky tv show as well ...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... n-19920109

Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Charlie Watts were the only band members to sign the new contract. Bill Wyman, who consented to the deal and will share in all [back] catalog payments, is rumored to be leaving the band. He is currently working on a solo project, although he is apparently free to sign the contract if he wishes. Ron Wood, who joined the Stones in 1975, is said to be barred from signing the band's recording agreements.

And Mick Taylor didn't get a share of the publishing royalties for song writing either ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... y-car.html

'Until then, I’d had a contract with Rolling Stones Records which was licensed to Atlantic Records – the same contract as the rest of the band.’ The deal gave him an equal share of performing royalties, though Jagger and Richards shared the writers’ royalties. But when the Atlantic contract expired, the band’s management used a loophole in Taylor’s contract to stop all payments.

If they mean performing fees ... no loophole ... the contract would have said he was entitled to a fee for performing in the band. If no longer in the band, then no longer performing, so obviously no fee. When contract renegotiated, there would have been no need to mention him as he was no longer in the band. If they mean 'recording royalties' with Rolling Stones Records, then the licensing deal with Atlantic would be irrelevant to Taylor as he would not have been party to that deal. His deal was with Rolling Stones Records, which would not have included digital format royalties as digital formats hadn't been invented then ... although he might be able to make a claim for recording royalties due on vinyl and cassette sales from Rolling Stones Records (or its successors if no longer in existence) if copyrights assigned ... don't imagine the Stones sell much back catalog on vinyl or cassette these days as probably been deleted from the catalog years ago ...
Flamenca
 
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:44

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Tibbierocks » 28 May 2014, 13:13

I have to say I’m not too keen on all the armchair psychology regarding Rory. What was Rory’s problem? Was he a narcissist? Did he have a personality disorder? Was he autistic? Was his rare blood type to blame? I don’t think he was any of those and I’m not convinced his blood was the problem either.

I think society judges people based upon their gender/age and job. Rory as a gorgeous guy, guitar god, should have bedded everything female under the sun. He should have been trashing hotel rooms, doing coke, etc., according to the levels of bad behaviour levels set by Zeppelin, etc., but no, he read books. So what was Rory’s problem? Maybe he was too bright for all that rubbish, but as a guitar player, that’s expected of him. Because of the job he did, that’s the behaviour people expect, not a polite, softly spoken man. Now if Rory had of worked for the local council in an office and he behaved like a rock star, those around him would have been saying what is up with Rory? What’s his problem? You see how you behave is governed to a large extent by those around you and what their expectations are of you as a person. Rory would have been very aware I’m sure that his behaviour - which is actually perfectly ‘normal’, would have been regarded as ‘abnormal’ in his line of work. So was he gay? No. I’ve no doubt Rory did date and his bed did get some use, but he wasn’t going to put that out there in the public arena or brag about it to Gerry McAvoy, etc. But knowing he was different would have made him feel isolated.

I think Rory once on stage came alive because a) he loved it and b) he knew people were there to watch a show and be entertained, hence when he came off stage he calmed down and didn’t act like that. Seriously, if Rory was cranked up to 11 all the time, he would have driven those around him nuts. I don’t think that’s a sign of him being unstable or a narcissist needing attention. Lots of musicians are different onstage to being off stage.

Of course Rory never married nor had children, so again, what’s his problem? Now this one strikes a chord with me as I’m not married and I don’t have children and I’ve come in for it again and again – what’s my problem? Why am I not like everyone else? How about I don’t want children and I’m not too keen on the idea of marriage either. No one has to marry or have children. I didn’t really start dating until I was in my 30s! Imagine all the stick I got for that. I feel for Rory on this. I, too, got my heart broken and that put me off it for years. Just like Rory, those around me all had theories on this and didn’t mind telling me their opinion on what was really a private matter.

I think society is too keen to label everyone and put them in a box and if you don’t fit any box, then you must have some kind of mental problem. Rory was an individual. First up he could play that guitar to a standard few ever have or ever will – straight away that marks him out as different. He could write songs. How many people can do that? I don’t know anyone who can. I’ve no doubt that his brain was probably wired up differently to other people, but that’s not a bad thing. He was uniquely talented, but in that lies the roots to isolation because I believe if you do think differently to most people, then you can feel very alienated – or a million miles away as Rory put it. Individually is not allowed. No matter what age or gender you are, then there are thing you should be doing, for e.g., age 18 going out clubbing or settled down with kids and spouse in yours 30s. Try deviating from this and see how fast people let you know that they think you are weird and odd.

As for Rory’s much talked of lack of social skills, I don’t buy it. In interviews, he makes appropriate eye contact, gives full answers. He doesn’t come across as having Asperger’s to me. Maybe Rory just didn’t like schmoozing, butt kissing, networking, small talk etc., which unfortunately is a large part of life. I’ve no doubt he did have social anxiety, lots do including me. In the book Games People Play by psychiatrist Eric Berne, he talks about those who are in the kitchen at parties and how they aren’t antisocial, but just recognise the games people are acting out and roles and seek to avoid this and find genuine honest communication. As someone who has often been in the kitchen at parties, I know exactly what he means. There are many social situations such as large gatherings, BBQs and dinner parties that I will avoid as I’m not comfortable and prefer small groups of people. That doesn’t mean I have issues, that’s how just I am. I suspect Rory was the same. He wasn’t going to work the room, which in his line of work, could/would have been useful. I suspect he was very careful who he spoke to and how much of himself he shared with others. I think he might have been the type of man who would rather avoid gossip and superficial chat and I don’t blame him. I’m sure on a one to one basis he was more open. Thing is the band – even Donal – were on the payroll and he was the boss. It must be awkward trying to walk the line between being personable and having a friendship with the band etc., yet not crossing that line to the extent that as everyone’s boss, he could still ensure he would get their respect and they would do as they were told – you can’t be the boss and be everyone’s friend. I’m sure that probably limited his interaction with them and thus contributed to his feeling alone.

I don’t dispute Rory had anxiety issues. The OCD was a sign of this. Rory was under a lot of pressure as the song-writer, etc. and I’ve no doubt that’s where the alcohol and medication came in. As his physical appearance changed, I’m sure that again increased his sense of isolation. Facing people and going onstage and having people see the weight gain etc., I’m sure would have been upsetting for him, hence more need to drink to cope, etc. I’m sure it made him withdraw further. I think Rory was caught up in some vicious circle of medication/alcohol, which added to his anxiety, depression no end. We all know alcohol is a depressant.

To sum up, I think he was a very bright guy, too bright to get sucked into a lot of the crap that go on in day to day life and certainly within the music business; who was careful who he spoke to and where socially he would go; who was careful what he shared with those closest to him, who also happened to be his employees; who sacrificed his personal life and relationships for his guitar; who got sucked into a downwards spiral of medication and alcohol; who sensed he was different in many ways to others and so withdrew more and more into himself. I think he was a unique guy, who was good person and very rarely these days, an individual who did not run with the pack. I don’t think he was mad, autistic or a raging narcissistic. Yes, I think he did need help for his anxiety and drinking and medication usage, but not intensive therapy with Freud. Things should have turned out differently for him and I think he got so lost along the way, he couldn’t find the way out.

As Gerry McAvoy and his book – well if Rory gave such bad wages, why did he stay for 20 years? That’s a long time to be in a job if you don’t like the money and conditions, etc. Rory can’t have been that bad a boss. Gerry wanted to be the star and he wasn’t and he didn’t like it and he held it against Rory.
User avatar
Tibbierocks
 
Posts: 231
Joined: 27 Dec 2013, 22:22

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 28 May 2014, 13:55

Sorry - don't agree with you. Many people are 'introverts' as you describe ... read Susan Cain 'Quiet: The Power of Introverts' for more information on that ... but they don't drink and drug (prescription or otherwise) themselves to an early death, like Rory did. IMO people with substance abuse problems are emotionally ill, irrespective of their substance / behaviour of addiction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Cain
http://ideas.time.com/2012/01/26/dont-c ... ldren-shy/

And as for the argument that Rory loved music ... yes he did ... as do probably all of us on this site ... but we don't need an audience to feel fulfilled or validated ... many of us play our instruments at home quite happily without an audience, and therein lies the difference. Many of us would 'die a thousand deaths' at the prospect of public speaking or performing to a large crowd, let alone crave or revel in it. Rory needed an audience because that is where he gained his validation ... from the attention and applause of others. People with healthy self esteem / worth / confidence, self validate. They don't need or seek out the approbation of others. They appreciate and accept it at face value when it is forth coming. They don't agonise internally due to pathological self doubt, as to whether it is sufficient or sincere.
Flamenca
 
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:44

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby capo » 28 May 2014, 16:56

Great post Tibbierocks. A well reasoned argument and makes great sense. As for Flamenca's posts, I hesitate to take issue with you because of your intellect and always enlightening and thoughtful posts. Your out of my league! I will only ask, I'm I being simplistic to understand you to say that all artists, be they Poets, Actors, Painters, Musicans, ect. suffer from a type of mental illness by bringing their work into public view? Dustin Hoffman tells a great story of having dinner with Sir Laurence Olivier, and asking the great actor, "Why do we act"?, and Olivier leaned across the table, got right into Hoffmans face and said "Look at me, look at me, look at me"! Hoffman got his answer. I can only say, thank god some people have this illness, how dreary would life be without great art. Socrates famously said, " The unexamined life is not worth living". Sometimes I think we 'overexamined' peoples life, dead and otherwise. No real harm in that but I think we at times lose the beauty and great mystery of a life being lived. Anyway, man, that Rory Gallagher should played a mean guitar! Peace.
capo
 
Posts: 412
Joined: 15 Jun 2011, 17:37
Location: Glendale, Arizona USA

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 28 May 2014, 17:55

Thanks for the compliment Capo ;)

To explain a little ... not all narcissistic traits lead to illness. People can have narcissistic traits without developing a debilitating condition. Gerry doesn't have a debilitating condition although he does have a strong desire to be entertaining. He enjoys the 'look at me' aspect of performing. IMO he is an excellent musician too. Is he jealous of Rory's popularity and envious of the money he made? Probably because he is quite competitive ... but I think I read somewhere that he has other business interests as well - importing quality wines from the continent to the UK ??? So he's probably doing OK financially ... but still enjoys the attention of fame, and feels he didn't get enough of the spoils!

Could you imagine Rory having any other 'job'? I can't. He lived for performing his music to an audience. Recognition and applause are very addictive. I suspect that drove Rory to perform anytime, anywhere, where he could 'see their eyes' in other words, where he could see them looking at him! ... Many people require grief counselling when they suffer a loss. Some people require counselling when they retire. Without it, they 'Fall Apart'. I think Rory would have taken the decline in his career very hard ('but whatever you do, don't show that hurt'). JayJay commented on the lyrics to Walk on Hot Coals ...'got my little girl beside me' ... and suggested the 'little girl' may have been the strat. I would agree, and add any instrument of Rory's, but most likely the strat.

I refer to 'I Could've Had Religion' ... 'but my little girl wouldn't let me pray' ... I think this was Rory's way of saying that playing his guitar, together with his love of the limelight, performing and loving all of the attention, was inconsistent with the modesty and humility of Catholic teachings ... It caused him 'cognitive dissonance' (A condition of conflict or anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions) ... I wouldn't be at all surprised if the inspiration for that song came from the beating he took from the Christian Brothers for playing the guitar, showing off on stage (according to them) seeking attention, vanity, playing sexual (rock n' roll) music and a 'phallic shaped' instrument ... any other crazy Catholic guilt trip they tried to pile on him ... probably because they personally were narcissistic and jealous, wanting to keep all the power and attention to themselves ... note: a congregation is a captive audience ... heaven forbid any one of the audience should step into the limelight themselves and gain more attention and become more popular ... so under the pretext of moral righteousness ... they beat him down and tried to keep him subjected ... and IMO the emotional damage started there ...
Last edited by Flamenca on 28 May 2014, 18:53, edited 3 times in total.
Flamenca
 
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:44

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Tom Jonas » 28 May 2014, 18:15

You are right Tibbierocks, hear hear!

Rory Gallagher was an excellent musician, one of the best ever, in the style of music I grew up with and still love. That's the main issue. Unfortunately his career was a bit shorter than it could have been, but the reasons for this, twenty years later, is hardly important or very interesting.
I'm so glad (quoting Cream) that there are so many DVDs available which give me a chance to feel what he really did on stage, as I was stupid or ignorant, and missed opportunities to experience a concert.
But I would gladly buy another 10 concert DVDs, if the sound is good enough. His live performances add an extra dimension to what I previously knew from his records. In that way Rory was quite unique.
Tom Jonas
 
Posts: 130
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 13:55

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Tom Jonas » 28 May 2014, 18:30

To explain a little ... not all narcissistic traits lead to illness. People can have narcissistic traits without developing a debilitating condition.


That is a very important Point Flamenca, glad you stressed this.
I think I was the first mentioning "narcissism", but as I said, we all have a bit of it in varying degrees
Tom Jonas
 
Posts: 130
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 13:55

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 28 May 2014, 18:52

I'm going to forget Gerry for now, and take in a little McAvoy Boogie, as played by . . . Well, you know who :lol: :lol: :lol:



Love that joyful glint in his eye, and his smile ;)

RoRy
User avatar
RobertaSparrow
 
Posts: 3618
Joined: 04 May 2012, 23:13
Location: Oregon

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby capo » 28 May 2014, 19:18

Great points Flamenca. Interesting how you tied in the treatment Rory received at the hands of the 'Christian' brothers. Rory indeed suffered for his art right from the start. I also recall a family tradition in the Gallagher family of Rory once considering the Priesthood. I think we all are grateful he choose another path.
capo
 
Posts: 412
Joined: 15 Jun 2011, 17:37
Location: Glendale, Arizona USA

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby photofinish » 28 May 2014, 20:47

So i assume the big top will be empty at Ballyshannon..!!!...no one seems to like Gerry...organisers..ur gunna lose money..!!!!
User avatar
photofinish
 
Posts: 375
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 06:18

PreviousNext

Return to RORY GALLAGHER'S ~ TASTE-FUL " LOOSE TALK " MAIN DISCUSSION FORUM

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests