Gerry McAvoy Thread

Rory Gallagher's No.1 Page for Discussion.. Topics Rory Related with Respect Always

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby capo » 20 May 2014, 16:28

Let me say first, that I will have no part in turning this Forum into a shooting gallery were people trade pot shots and insults at each other for expressing their honest opinions. There's another Rory Forum you can go to where their quite good at it. Rory, as I have said time and again, was no saint. He was very human and had many faults, as we all do. My latest issue with McAvoy was his statement that one of the reasons he left Rory was his degrading musicianship. Anybody with ears and eyes can see what a falsehood that is. Playing wise, Rory was at the top of his game. Sadly, his health was not. Yeah Photofinish, its easy to hide behind a computer keyboard and slag people off with no harm . But I'm not flying half way around the world to talk to Gerry, but my contact Email is there for all to see if they want to contact me. Anyway, we all, at this Forum, share a common love and passion for the music of one Rory Gallagher. Sometimes that passion gets the best of us and we forget why we come to this place in the first place. I am guilty of this at times. So, Peace to all my fellow Rory fans. Fin.
capo
 
Posts: 412
Joined: 15 Jun 2011, 17:37
Location: Glendale, Arizona USA

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 20 May 2014, 16:31

photofinish wrote:Here we go again.....Band of friends are playing Ballyshannon no doubt cos there getting paid a lot if money...from what i gather its getting a money making exercise...so blame the organisers for that...ur all gud at slagging Gerry off...no doubt u wouldn't dare say it to his face...Gerry has as much right to play Rory's music as anyone else...i see Sinner Boy..now appear at bottom of poster...that says it all...wots Mungo Jerry got to do with Rory for gods sake..


Photofinish, you and I have disagreed over this before. You are a respected member of the forum and entitled to your opinion. I have argued my position before, and you don't have to agree with me, in fact I don't expect you to. But as far as whether I would say them to Gerry or not, well, anyone who knows me knows the answer to that. This is a public forum, as is another that I write on. I say what I believe, what I feel, and if I know something for a fact I will state it that way. I presume that Gerry may well have read what I have written. He wrote what he wrote, and I write what I wrote. What I believe is based on what he said. What he said he did. I will reiterate- I think what he did hurt Rory a lot- at a time when Rory needed all the help and support he could get. I think Gerry might have been in a position to help Rory, and I think, by the words he wrote about what he did, that he not only did not even try to help him, he turned and walked away when Rory needed him. I see Rory there, in my mind's eye, alone and not knowing what to do to help himself, and I think about Gerry walking out on him after how many years? I'm not okay with that. I won't be a hypocrite and pretend otherwise.

He makes a living playing Rory's songs, and they are Rory's songs- Rory paid dearly for them, as he did with his creations when he was in Taste. When Taste imploded and Rory lost the rights to his own music and to the band he formed, he was badly hurt, but he was young and with his life ahead of him. When Gerry and Brendan walked out on him surely that same old wound tore open again. Gerry knew that, did it anyway, but Rory wasn't as strong or healthy then, and that's why Gerry left him. Tell me where I'm wrong.

The celebration is of Rory's music and his life. They are no more Gerry's compositions than "Here Comes The Sun" or "Taxman" are Paul McCartney's compositions merely because he wrote the bass line. So Gerry makes a living that way, people are paying to see him. He has as much right to play them as anyone else. And that includes anyone else. If other people want to pay to see him, so be it. More power to them.

Now, this is clearly a divisive issue. I don't know if discussing it is a good thing or not, reopening this particular can of worms. But I have stated my opinion as truthfully as I can. I leave it to the others to decide.


This is one of Rory's last performances- You Tell Me- Is that not one of his most impassioned performances of ANY of them?

That so many of us gather here FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD to remember this wonderful artist speaks volumes- and there is not one on this forum that I do not respect for their dedication and love of this amazing man. So let's focus on that.
User avatar
RobertaSparrow
 
Posts: 3618
Joined: 04 May 2012, 23:13
Location: Oregon

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby IrishBlues » 21 May 2014, 00:51

Here is the link to that article for those of you interested enough. http://www.culturenorthernireland.org/a ... e-festival

This manner of speaking about Rory Gallagher when the man is dead and unable to defend himself,Seems to be a trend now as I just watched a 'The Clash' documentary where Joe Strummer was depicted in a horrible light despite being dead and again unable to defend himself.

Why does McAvoy even bother with these remarks?
IrishBlues
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 04 Oct 2013, 00:21

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Tom Jonas » 24 May 2014, 11:21

Jack Bruce is absolutely outstanding and you could hardly compare anyone with him. Jack Bruce and Rory would have been an excellent cream.
But I still think McAvoy is a good basist and I like his style. But you could probably find 50 other basists on the same level. At least I notice the difference in the Montreaux 1994 DVD, McAvoy's base is clearly missing there.
And at least he wrote a book about those years, even if the content could have been better. I would wellcome books from anyone involved in that time.
I suppose many musicians (as well as painters and sporting people on a high level) have narcissistic traits. That is a drive which makes them perform. You need more than being a good guitarist for playing in front of audiences of 5000 people night after night.
Tom Jonas
 
Posts: 130
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 13:55

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Jay Jay » 24 May 2014, 12:21

photofinish wrote:Here we go again.....Band of friends are playing Ballyshannon no doubt cos there getting paid a lot if money...from what i gather its getting a money making exercise...so blame the organisers for that...ur all gud at slagging Gerry off...no doubt u wouldn't dare say it to his face...Gerry has as much right to play Rory's music as anyone else...i see Sinner Boy..now appear at bottom of poster...that says it all...wots Mungo Jerry got to do with Rory for gods sake..

Tom Jonas wrote: I still think McAvoy is a good basist and I like his style. But you could probably find 50 other basists on the same level. At least I notice the difference in the Montreaux 1994 DVD, McAvoy's base is clearly missing there.


Hi Photofinish (Mark)
We are all stating like Tom here on this topic how Gerry contributed greatly to Rory in 20 years. Plus as I said what an excellent bassist Gerry was for Rory. There is no disputing that or as you put it slagging him off there. We just have a concern about Gerry attitude towards Rory's generosity in life.

You know better than any of us on these boards. How generous Rory was to everyone he knew. Signing all your Rory albums. Sharing many a chat and a pint with you. Don't you have any concern now about Gerry's words of hurt to mostly Rory's Family and many of his fans too. How after the great and generous man's passing. That Gerry keeps giving the impression. In his RS book especially in many chapters and in this statement in this new interview. That Rory never paid him enough??

Btw, Barry & Sinnerboy aren't complaining. With his "seven gigs" in 4 glorious days of Rory celebrations @ this years RORY FEST :)
Plus SINNERBOY do headline and are top of the bill at The Big Top Friday evening :)

Rock On for Rory
Slainte, Jay Jay

PS. You are totally wrong about the "money making exercise" by the Good folk of Ballyshannon ( population just over 2000). Barry O'Neill and the festival committee, struggle with finances, to keep this great celebration and tribute to our hero going every year.
Not even possibly the most famous entertainers of the 20th century Elvis Plesley or the Beatles..
Have a "FOUR DAY MUSIC FESTIVAL" dedicated to them :) :) :) :)
User avatar
Jay Jay
 
Posts: 4784
Joined: 07 Mar 2010, 16:03
Location: In Your Town

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 24 May 2014, 13:44

Tom Jonas wrote:I suppose many musicians (as well as painters and sporting people on a high level) have narcissistic traits. That is a drive which makes them perform. You need more than being a good guitarist for playing in front of audiences of 5000 people night after night.


I wasn't going to comment on this thread ... but I'm glad someone else noticed the elephant in the room (narcissism - a psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem) ... this link gave the most succinct explanation that I could find ...

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/O ... edir_esc=y

"Two types of trait narcissism have been identified empirically and clinically in the literature, both of which are conceptualized to possess core issues of entitlement and exploitativeness. Yet these two types behave quite differently, especially in the face of rejection. Overt narcissists are described as arrogant, aggressive, and hostile, whereas covert narcissists are described as hypersensitive, anxious, and shunning of others. Psychodynamic formulations of narcissism consider angry responses to rejection as an important diagnostic indicator ... overt narcissism was linked to seeking out high-status individuals to meet self object needs deficits, while covert narcissism was linked to avoiding opportunities to have needs met."

http://www.psychology.edu/blog/the-narc ... anization/

IMHO - I believe both Rory to have had, and Gerry to have narcissistic traits - Rory mostly covert, and Gerry more overt. I don't judge either of them harshly for this, as these qualities are as Dr. Jonas says above, necessary for them to have the drive to 'entertain' us.

I don't think either Rory or Gerry have strong narcissistic traits like say the 'Spinal Tap' kind of musicians ...

Many people have commented on Rory's different behaviour off stage from on-stage. I think he was more overtly narcissistic on-stage, and then switched into covertly narcissistic behaviour off-stage. The underlying narcissistic traits didn't alter, merely the manifestation of them. You tend to find this 'switching' more often in actors/actresses than musicians. Remember Rory's mother was an actress so she would have coached him to keep a lid on his excesses and 'to always think of others'!

I think much of Rory's anxiety, guilt and shame was due to 'cognitive dissonance' - reconciling the needs of the 'true self' (narcissistic) verses the 'ideal self' (the perfect person per his Catholic upbringing) ...

Rory was an entrepreneur - the risks and rewards rested with him. He paid the band their fees, retainers and buy-outs, whether the records or tickets sold 1 unit (producing a loss) or 1 million units (producing a profit). Either case, they still got paid. That was the deal. Take it or leave it. When Gerry was offered a better deal elsewhere (when Rory could no longer afford to pay him), Gerry took it. That also was Gerry's prerogative. The morals of either situation and whether the deals were fair are open to conjecture.

I think Rory was interested in Basquiat for artistic reasons only. Remember urban art was in its infancy in the late 70's -80's. It was fascinating for so many including Debbie Harry - a strong supporter of the idiom. With regards to Nicholas Ray, Rory loved 'Johnny Guitar' - one of his early screen favourites. As a teenager, he loved 'Rebel Without a Cause' too.
Last edited by Flamenca on 24 May 2014, 17:48, edited 2 times in total.
Flamenca
 
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:44

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Tom Jonas » 24 May 2014, 14:21

I agree completely with you Flamenca!
There are various grades of narcissism. And it's not necessarily a negative trait, because that is why we have performers (but no implication that everyone "suffers" from it).
On the other side of the spectra there is a clearly pathological form which has a psychiatric diagnosis, a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
I'm sure that you sometimes have met persons with narcissistic traits, and we all have a bit of it. It feels good to be popular!

And Rory's Dr Jekyll-Mr Hyde personality is fascinating, which a professional psychologist might explain better.
I know of several actors who have (or had) a similar behaviour - off-stage an unbelieviable humbleness and vagueness, and often combined with an almost disabling stage-fright. But when they eventually are on-stage their act and performance could be outstanding and of world-class. And this every night if its a role in a theatrical play!
Amazing, but in some cases there is an end - they can no longer do it!
A bit of Rory here perhaps.
Tom Jonas
 
Posts: 130
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 13:55

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Jay Jay » 24 May 2014, 14:27

Hi Flamenca & Tom

Although I agree with you probably on this point of narcissistic traits..

Let us not divert on this topic. Rory is not at question here. It's Gerry's attitude toward Rory as a boss that's in question here. No doubt they had a good relationship / friendship in the 20 years together. It's since Rory passing this resentment about being under-paid as come about in Gerry's words he publishes?

Btw, Did anyone ever hear Wilgar Campbell, Rod De'Ath, Lou Martin, Ted Mckenna, Brendan O'Neill, Mark Feltham, David Levy, Richard Newman and other session musician's Rory hired for his studio albums. Complain or moan about the pay that Rory & Donal gave them????
To the contrary you'll find. Like on "Requiem for Rory" film by UTV. Where the guy from Irish band Moving Hearts. Tells a story about Rory and Donal (Festival Promoters) how generous they were. Paying all the members of the bands and other artists their full wages. Although this music festival was cancelled and they didn't even had to play a note ;)

Rock On for Rory
Slainte, Jay Jay
User avatar
Jay Jay
 
Posts: 4784
Joined: 07 Mar 2010, 16:03
Location: In Your Town

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Flamenca » 24 May 2014, 14:57

I agree with you on these points JJ.

Rory always paid his bills, even when the gigs were loss making (and there must have been many times when this was case, as they didn't plan the tour itinerary based on cost efficiency or sessional viability).

I think Gerry misunderstood his role - he felt they should have been like some other bands - treated all as equals, but this perception is, IMO, naïve. He fails to realise that Rory was the 'key-man' that the record company wanted to sign. The other band members were not named as parties in the contract. If the record company had valued them, they would have insisted on naming them all in the contract. Bear in mind, Simply Red's record deal has only ever been for Mick Hucknall. None of the others are named in the key-man clause as parties to the agreement, yet they have been together as a 'band' for over 30 years. There are many such 'bands' that aren't really a band legally. UB40's record deal was only ever for the Campbell brothers, none of the others in the 'band' were signed.

With regard to the song writing ... Gerry feels he should have received a writing credit and publishing royalty for the songs. Sorry, but those weren't the terms of the deal with Rory. Rory paid him a buy-out fee. This is common practise in the music industry. Gerry wasn't short changed IMO. He's free to complain about it, but I don't think his words hold any weight with those in the 'know' and actually do him no credit.
Flamenca
 
Posts: 272
Joined: 28 Feb 2012, 15:44

Re: Turncoat McAvoy Again Slanders Rory

Postby Jay Jay » 25 May 2014, 12:35

Flamenca wrote:I agree with you on these points JJ.

Rory always paid his bills, even when the gigs were loss making (and there must have been many times when this was case, as they didn't plan the tour itinerary based on cost efficiency or sessional viability).

I think Gerry misunderstood his role - he felt they should have been like some other bands - treated all as equals, but this perception is, IMO, naïve. He fails to realise that Rory was the 'key-man' that the record company wanted to sign. The other band members were not named as parties in the contract. If the record company had valued them, they would have insisted on naming them all in the contract. Bear in mind, Simply Red's record deal has only ever been for Mick Hucknall. None of the others are named in the key-man clause as parties to the agreement, yet they have been together as a 'band' for over 30 years. There are many such 'bands' that aren't really a band legally. UB40's record deal was only ever for the Campbell brothers, none of the others in the 'band' were signed.

With regard to the song writing ... Gerry feels he should have received a writing credit and publishing royalty for the songs. Sorry, but those weren't the terms of the deal with Rory. Rory paid him a buy-out fee. This is common practise in the music industry. Gerry wasn't short changed IMO. He's free to complain about it, but I don't think his words hold any weight with those in the 'know' and actually do him no credit.


Exactly as Flamenca says..

Romany Rory really, touring around the world in that sort of fashion. Just for the love of his art, regardless of the expense to a degree.
Just as I believe another great guitarist was Django Reinhardt. Although Rory was not born from a gypsy family, as Django was.

Gonna throw away my lucky penny,
My rabbits foot and gypsy ring,
Throw away my lucky penny,
My rabbits foot and gypsy ring,
Not gonna gamble on my baby,
On this loosing streak I might not win .

Well I walk on hot coals,
Sleep on a bed of nails,
Walk on thin ice,
Skate on razor blades,
Got my little girl beside me,
No matter what else fails.

PS. Rory I reckon is referring to " The Strat " with "Got my little girl beside me.. No matter what else fails " ;)
User avatar
Jay Jay
 
Posts: 4784
Joined: 07 Mar 2010, 16:03
Location: In Your Town

PreviousNext

Return to RORY GALLAGHER'S ~ TASTE-FUL " LOOSE TALK " MAIN DISCUSSION FORUM

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron