Why doctors were killing Rory

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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 29 Jun 2012, 03:41

I was reading some of the posts on this thread.
First, re: Flamenca's post- I envy you that you knew Rory. I did not. I merely watched him play at some of the small clubs in L.A. Some of the big venues as well. But I thought he was a wonderful artist and I thought he seemed very kindhearted and sweet. Usually I went with my boyfriend at the time, Tim, and our friends. Rory was 5 years older than me, and from where I sat I must say he looked damned good. I remember watching him play and looking at Tim and thinking, "I wouldn't mind trading up," but lets be real. Most of my friends in L.A. back then were in working bands, but no where near the stature of Rory and his band. I'm talking little bars and obscure clubs and such.

Anyway, knowing someone enough to call him a friend has as much to do with luck, random chances, and circumstance, as it does with personality and substance. I would have loved to have met him and been his friend, but I didn't travel in those circles. But I would have liked to have known him as a friend- not because he was physically attractive (and he was) but because he seemed very sweet and kindhearted. He seemed respectful of other people. And mostly because he was the sort of person who stood up for what he thought was right and fair - such as he did when risking his life to entertain the kids in Northern Ireland- providing them a little happiness in a sad time- That's admirable. That's leadership. So, in the videos I've seen of his later performances, toward the end of his life, when he was obviously very ill and retaining fluid, and having a hard time doing the things he loved, he still seemed very sweet and kindhearted. So to me he was just as attractive, and I still would have liked to have been his friend.

Anyway, to the topic at hand- It has been said that doctors bury their mistakes.

My uncle was ill for about a year. He had terrible abdominal pain and pain in his shoulder. For about a year he saw his personal physician and other specialists. He underwent numerous painful invasive procedures and tests. Finally he became so ill that we took him to the emergency room, The ER docs did their own tests, and within 10 hours they diagnosed him with terminal lung cancer. He was dead 2 weeks later.

Rory was afraid of flying. So doctors gave him anti-anxiety meds, maybe valium, maybe xanax, or something equally habit forming. They gave him antidepressants. Prozac was popular in the 90's, but some docs still prescribed the old tricyclics. Tricyclics are tricky, they don't mix well with other stuff, and SSRIs like Prozac can't be taken with tricyclics at all. Donal said that the docs were giving Rory steroids for pain as well- not the stuff athletes take, but probably prednisone or similar. Doctors prescribe them for inflammation, colitis, hives, autoimmune illnesses. They work by suppressing the immune system. Nowadays when someone takes that stuff it's for a short time, and the person has to taper off the doseage gradually or bad things happen. Rory was still having pain, so they gave him PRESCRIPTION STRENGTH acetaminophen (paracetamol is the name used in Europe). Acetaminophen alone used over a long period of time can cause severe liver damage, no alcohol required.

With the exception of the anti anxiety drugs, these are not used by people as recreational drugs- they don't get a person high. And all of them are detrimental to the liver. Prednisone makes a person retain fluid, and it can affect blood pressure. It weakens the immune system, and makes a person vulnerable to other illnesses. Antidepressants can make a person feel tired, and they often cause weight gain.

Everything a person consumes has to be processed by the liver. It cleans the blood of everything that shouldn't be there.

So there's Rory, taking meds they told him would help. And he enjoys drinking. I don't think he was an alcoholic but even if he was, perhaps he's what my friend Tim would call a functioning alcoholic. Rory takes prescription strength paracetamol, maybe takes a little more than they recommend. They used to promote Tylenol as being so safe it won't upset the stomach. But they don't say it attacks the liver. So he takes this stuff every day for a while and he has a drink or two. The liver gets overburdened trying to remove these drugs, and the paracetamol damages the liver in the process so it doesn't work as efficiently. That one drink that could be processed in an hour now stays in the blood longer because the liver can't keep up with the damage. So when he takes another drink later, the first one is still there and so is the rest of that crap that the doctors told him to take. Eventually the liver starts to get scarred from all the toxins it's trying to remove, and toxins stay in the body much longer than they should. Alcohol stays in the blood longer. Less alcohol can make a person seem like they drank more than they really did.

So technically I guess they can say Rory died from prescription drug and alcohol abuse. But that's not really fair. Or you could say he died from the Multi-resistant staphylococcus aureus- MRSA infection that breeds in hospitals. But he wouldn't have been in the hospital in the first place if his doctors had been checking his blood to make sure the crap they were giving him wasn't doing him more harm than good.

I know about the tests. I have chronic severe depression- I control it with an SSRI. I take thyroid meds, and I also have migraines, and I used to take Tylenol for that. Every so often the doctor draws blood and checks levels. That's how I found out how really nasty acetaminophen is- because it wasn't long before the tests started to come back with elevated liver enzymes. And I don't drink. I also don't take acetaminophen any more.

So in my opinion, and that's all it is, I think that if the doctors had been paying attention to the changes in Rory's appearance they would have known he was in trouble.

I think he was ill, and probably a little afraid, and wanted to trust that his doctors knew what the hell they were doing. Some say he gave up and wanted to die. I don't think he wanted to die. Nobody would go through the pain and agony of a liver transplant if they wanted to give up and die. I think he put his trust in the wrong people- his primary care doctors, and I think they had many opportunities to save his life if they had been paying attention. For what it's worth.
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby Olav » 29 Jun 2012, 09:04

Thank you RobertaSparrow! I agree with all your words as I think the same. With much respect to you, Olav.
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby Flamenca » 29 Jun 2012, 14:35

Hi Roberta

Lovely post from you. Many thanks for that!

Sorry for overlooking Bibi!
I have said before and will say again, I think Bibi is doing a fantastic job with the airport and the Facebook page with John.

For those who want to hear about all things 'Rory', I have now remembered the bistro where Phil and I used to see Rory back in 1984. It was La Brasserie 272 Brompton Road http://www.labrasserielondon.com. We used to wait for a table across the road looking in the Habitat shop window that is now a ladies' clothes shop called Joseph. You can find it on google maps. It's just near Michelin House.

Best wishes
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby Sinner Girl » 01 Jul 2012, 23:19

Ok, I know little bit off topic, but I'm a little confused(some things are contradictory )some
say that Rory was shy, some say it is not, and what is truth???

ps: Thank you RobertaSparrow ,you read my mind when you wrote this
;) ;)
''When I was a cowboy out on the Western Plain''

''Being back home means a lot.A bit a peace and quiet and some rest . I write all my songs at home.Its an amazing thing, the minute I get here I begin to wright'
Rory Gallagher
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby Jay Jay » 02 Jul 2012, 19:40

Sinner Girl wrote:Ok, I know little bit off topic, but I'm a little confused(some things are contradictory )some
say that Rory was shy, some say it is not, and what is truth???


Rory would not have done thousands of live concerts all over the world, for all those years if he'd have been shy ;)
Plus he would not have been filmed by his consent (IT'74) and photographed so much either ;)
Plus if shy he would not have put himself on front of album covers even last album Fresh Evidence. ;)

Rory I believe was a nervous guy not shy. The fear of flying and the nervousness before every performance. This must have led Rory at some time in his life to see if doctors could prescribe him some medication for this. Plus medication for his insomnia he suffered in later years did not help either.
If you love Rory Gallagher and his music checkout my Rory Gallagher & Tasteful friends facebook page
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby tonetanner » 02 Jul 2012, 20:52

I have a thought! I'm deaf in one ear and it sometimes makes conversation in noisy places difficult, especially if I'm stuck on the wrong side of people, and occasionally I might come across a bit reserved. I bet Rory had ringing in the ears quite a bit, and if so that may have made him a bit reserved at times?
Just a guess. :idea:
TT
what do you think of that?
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby tonetanner » 02 Jul 2012, 20:54

I have a thought! I'm deaf in one ear and it sometimes makes conversation in noisy places difficult, especially if I'm stuck on the wrong side of people, and occasionally I might come across a bit reserved. I bet Rory had ringing in the ears quite a bit, and if so that may have made him a bit reserved at times?
Just a guess. :idea:
TT
what do you think of that?
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby Sinner Girl » 02 Jul 2012, 20:55

Jay Jay wrote:
Sinner Girl wrote:Ok, I know little bit off topic, but I'm a little confused(some things are contradictory )some
say that Rory was shy, some say it is not, and what is truth???


Rory would not have done thousands of live concerts all over the world, for all those years if he'd have been shy ;)
Plus he would not have been filmed by his consent (IT'74) and photographed so much either ;)
Plus if shy he would not have put himself on front of album covers even last album Fresh Evidence. ;)

Rory I believe was a nervous guy not shy. The fear of flying and the nervousness before every performance. This must have led Rory at some time in his life to see if doctors could prescribe him some medication for this. Plus medication for his insomnia he suffered in later years did not help either.



I have to agree with you JJ ;), because many girls who have met in person say he was shy, but after the performance( concert) :)
I'm not aware of this Jekyll and Hyde change - Rory Gallagher
''When I was a cowboy out on the Western Plain''

''Being back home means a lot.A bit a peace and quiet and some rest . I write all my songs at home.Its an amazing thing, the minute I get here I begin to wright'
Rory Gallagher
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby innuendo » 04 Jul 2012, 13:56

i think rory wasn't shy, he was just gentle and soft spoken person which can be mistaken for being shy. just my two cents.
I watched as fear took the old men's gaze
Hopes of the young in troubled graves
'I see no day' I heard him say
So grey is the face of every mortal
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Re: Why doctors were killing Rory

Postby RobertaSparrow » 04 Jul 2012, 19:29

Sinner Girl wrote:
Jay Jay wrote:
Sinner Girl wrote:Ok, I know little bit off topic, but I'm a little confused(some things are contradictory )some
say that Rory was shy, some say it is not, and what is truth???


Rory would not have done thousands of live concerts all over the world, for all those years if he'd have been shy ;)
Plus he would not have been filmed by his consent (IT'74) and photographed so much either ;)
Plus if shy he would not have put himself on front of album covers even last album Fresh Evidence. ;)

Rory I believe was a nervous guy not shy. The fear of flying and the nervousness before every performance. This must have led Rory at some time in his life to see if doctors could prescribe him some medication for this. Plus medication for his insomnia he suffered in later years did not help either.



I have to agree with you JJ ;), because many girls who have met in person say he was shy, but after the performance( concert) :)

RobertaSparrow wrote:There are too many videos where Rory is in a public place, not on stage, and fans or strangers approach him and he does not react like a shy person. He appears to be reserved, perhaps a little guarded, but he also looks friendly and receptive to others.

If he was prone to anxiety and depression, particularly in his later years, well those prescriptions they were giving him could easily have made him withdraw more than he normally would. As someone who has always suffered from bouts of severe depression, I can say that it can put a person into a place mentally and emotionally where it's really hard to climb out. Doctors tend to prescribe meds too quickly. To get to the heart of the problem takes a little more effort, and scribbling out a scrip for the latest drug doesn't usually cure anyone. And antidepressants can help but they aren't one size fits all. The wrong ones can make things seem much worse.

The anxiety and antidepressant meds may have pushed him further into a darker place.

I wonder, also, if maybe Rory had a touch of OCD. Men are a little more likely to suffer from it. Rory was said to have been superstitious. But some of the things he said in interviews and some of the things his friends have said sound similar to symptoms of OCD- things like being distressed in a room where picture frames are not straight, or being hyper sensative or avoiding certain numbers. Needing to keep things in a certain order, being upset if shoes are crooked or switched around. Needing to do or have things in a certain way lest something dreadful will happen. Having to count or touch or rearrange things a certain way. I've heard it defined as "magical thinking" but it's a treatable condition. Untreated it can interfere with a person's ability to function- it can cause horrible anxiety- an intense fear that if things aren't done a certain way something terrible will happen. Undiagnosed, and with the wrong medications, it can exacerbate the condition.

Rory was a prodigy, a very creative, gifted person, and I believe creative people are much more prone to these types of problems. It tends to go hand-in-hand with creative genius.

My daughter has OCD, and before she was diagnosed she thought she was going crazy. Knowing what was wrong- understanding that it is something that other people have and something that can be coped with is half the battle. Just knowing why is sometimes relief enough.

It's all speculation anyway, and too late to really make a difference, but from the things I've read and the interviews I've heard, it seems that Rory was describing symptoms I've seen.

I learned a lot about it while helping a teenager with this condition grow to a healthy adult .



I'm not aware of this Jekyll and Hyde change - Rory Gallagher
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